Food Plot Drill

William Allis

New Member
I mix cereal grain with my pelleted lime of fertilizer and spread with a cyclone 3 point seeder. I spread brassica and clover seed with a belly grinder. Maybe 2-3 acres a year. I am not getting uniform coverage. Keep thinking I need a Brillion Drill, but the price is prohibitive.

I would like to put on the very small clover and brassica and drill oats, rye and buckwheat in one pass and have uniform coverage. Guess I would prefer a 3 point hitch so when I picked it up it would stop planting.

Is there anything out there at a reasonable price or what should I look for in used?
 
I have a small 3-point Kasco no-till versadrill. I don't use it for any of those crops. I no longer use fertilizer at all since I've gone to no-till. I use a lime buggy from the coop to spread ag lime. By selecting smart seed mixes, I can surface broaddcast and cultipack.

The first question I would ask is what do you mean by not getting uniform coverage. Do you mean that you are broadcasting a mixture of seeds at once and some areas of the field have more of one crop and less of another or do you mean there are areas of the field that are thin?

First, most are far too fussy about uniform coverage. Second, most judge coverage by the resulting crop. It could be that we broadcast uniformly but don't get uniform germination. Some seed types get better germination when surface broadcast than others. Cultipacking are really help germination rates with some seeds, especially if you don't have a good rain in the forecast.

You don't mention of you are dong traditional tillage or have move on like many of us to no-till techniques. For a few acres, unless you have money to burn, most of what you find isn't going to help much.

I typically plant buckwheat and sunn hemp in the spring. Both do well when surface broadcast and cultipacked. The seed sizes are mixed, so the relative distribution of them largely depends on how well I mix them in the broadcast hopper.

For fall, I usually plant WR/CC/PTT/GHR. Again, I mix them in a 3-pt broadcast spreader. The WR acts as a carrier for the small seed. Deer don't really care if there is more of one crop in parts of the field and more of a different crop in another.

Anther thing to consider is your broadcasting technique. A 3-point broadcast spreader is MUCH faster than my 4' drill even considering the time it takes me to cultipack it with a 10' cultipacker.

I set my broadcast rate roughly half of what it takes to cover the field in a single pass. I make a first pass over the field at this half rate to make sure all of the field gets seed. I then simply drive random zig-zag patterns over the field until the seed is gone.

My ugly fields with a mix of non-uniform crops with a healthy mix of weeds are feeding just as many deer as when I was planting magazine cover monocultures of row crops. I was spending lots of money on fertilizer. Since I've switched to smart seed mixes that complement each other and can be surface broadcast and cultipacked, my fertilizer cost has gone to zero and I'm accomplishing the same thing.

All of this is just food for thought.
 
Enough gibberish. Yes, there are very capable drills. I would want one with a large and small seed box for your desires. You won't find a capable new drill for less than $7000, and that's pushing it. Not sure what you consider reasonable.
 
$7K is not reasonable. Afraid I am looking for something that doesn't exist.

Yoderjac do you mix clover or brassica (very small seed) with your cereal grains in the broadcast seeder? What is WR/CC/PTT/GHR? Does your seeder have a mixer in it? I have been doing spray-throw-and mow (or cultipack). I also have a rolling plow (offset disk) that I am going to start using rather than spray, especially in recovered hay/brush meadows. I am trying to keep the CPD (cost per deer) below $5K! I agree, while watching deer graze, they eat a lot of weeds, even new shoots of Multi flower Rose.
 
$7K is not reasonable. Afraid I am looking for something that doesn't exist.

Yoderjac do you mix clover or brassica (very small seed) with your cereal grains in the broadcast seeder? What is WR/CC/PTT/GHR? Does your seeder have a mixer in it? I have been doing spray-throw-and mow (or cultipack). I also have a rolling plow (offset disk) that I am going to start using rather than spray, especially in recovered hay/brush meadows. I am trying to keep the CPD (cost per deer) below $5K! I agree, while watching deer graze, they eat a lot of weeds, even new shoots of Multi flower Rose.
If you can't buy, see if you can rent something locally. You didn't mention what kind of tractor/ATV/utv you have.
 
$7K is not reasonable. Afraid I am looking for something that doesn't exist.

Yoderjac do you mix clover or brassica (very small seed) with your cereal grains in the broadcast seeder? What is WR/CC/PTT/GHR? Does your seeder have a mixer in it? I have been doing spray-throw-and mow (or cultipack). I also have a rolling plow (offset disk) that I am going to start using rather than spray, especially in recovered hay/brush meadows. I am trying to keep the CPD (cost per deer) below $5K! I agree, while watching deer graze, they eat a lot of weeds, even new shoots of Multi flower Rose.
Sorry for using the abbreviations. WR- Winter Rye, CC - Crimson Clover, PTT - Purple top turnips, GHR - Groundhog Radish (Daikon Radish Groundhog is brand name that is cheap and many use).

Yes, my fall seed mix includes the PTT and GHR (which are brassica) in the mix with the WR (cereal). I mix my own seed. I will typically pour about 25 lbs of WR in the spreader first. I'll then add about 1/4 of each type of smaller seed in the fall mix. I'll reach into the spreader and mix it up a bit with my hands. I'll then add another 25 lbs of WR and add the second quarter of each type of small seed. I'll mix that up a bit. I'll repeat this with the remaining seed. I'll typically use about 100lbs of WR total in the spreader at a time.

A lot depends on your soil type. In my case, I have heavy clay with low OM (Organic Matter). No-till methods will build OM over time, but when I first started, my clay would crust. Light disking was necessary to break that crust. I no longer need to to disk as the OM has built over the years and the clay no longer crusts. When you use traditional tillage techniques, you introduce oxygen into the soil which burns the OM you have at a higher rate. Without a healthy microbiome, you need to add a lot of fertilizer. With no-till or (min-till) and planting mixes of seeds that complement each other, you can eventually get to the point where you stop using fertilizer which is a big cost savings. You still want to use lime when necessary to get the pH right. In my case, with heavy clay, and acidic soil, I need almost 4 tons of lime per acre to adjust new ground, but since lime moves slowly through clay, it can be 5+ years before the pH needs 1 ton/ac of maintenance lime. Folks with sandy soil may need to add lime more often as it moves through the sandy soil much more quickly.

So, when I do use a light disk for min-till, from a distance, you would not know the field was tilled. It looks more green than brown. I'm just trying to break the surface slightly. I don't set the disk to be very aggressive and I don't add weight. I've also used a 3pt tiller for this. Rather than setting it on the feet, I raise is with the hitch so the tines are barely touching the top inch of soil and I move more quickly than one does when using a tiller conventionally. Both methods work.

Keep in mind, that disking won't take the place of herbicides. Here is what happens. If you min-till like I describe above, much of the weeds are still rooted and recover quickly and are advantaged over your planted seed. If you till deeper, you are bringing up weed seed into the germination layer and you are introducing oxygen deeper into your soil. So, you lose some of the benefits of no-till/min-till and you still have significant weed competition.

Now, weeds (depending on what kind) may now be a bad thing, but you will have a much higher percentage of weeds. I've learned to be prudent with herbicide uses. Back when I was planting Roundup Ready (RR) soybeans for summer, I would use glyphosate (gly) for burn down and then again once or twice after the beans emerged to keep the weeds down so the bean could canopy. After a pine thinning and using prescribed fire in the pines, marestail (a noxious weed) came up in the pines from the seed bank. Seed got into our fields. Marestail is naturally resistant to gly and it soon began to dominate the field.

I ended up switching from RR soybeans to the mix of buckwheat and sunn hemp for summer. They both germinate quickly and compete well with weeds. I switch to a generic form of Liberty herbicide for burn down before planting for a few years to get the Marestail under control. I now rotate gly and generic Liberty for burndown. I'm using herbicide less frequently and not using the same one back to back. I now have a much healthier mix of weeds in my plots.

So, as you think through whether to continue using herbicides an how, it brings us to the topic of weeds. I want my crops to be advantaged and get a good start, so I like a good burn down, but once they germinate, I'm now very tolerant of weeds in general. As you say, you seed deer eat a wide variety of weeds.

I'm actually going one step further and starting to manage for weeds as deer food and cover. Watch the video at the beginning of this thread: Weed Management Thread

While I'll always have some food plots, I'm dedicating more of my acreage to this approach which is producing more deer food at a lower cost. The key is getting rid of cool season grasses.


One last caveat I have for you. Not only could your soil type be different than mine, your climate may be different as well. So, what works well for me may or may not for you. You may need to adapt it for your location. I'm in zone 7A in VA. I'm not sure where you are located.

Enough of my gibberish! :)
 
$7K is not reasonable. Afraid I am looking for something that doesn't exist.

Yoderjac do you mix clover or brassica (very small seed) with your cereal grains in the broadcast seeder? What is WR/CC/PTT/GHR? Does your seeder have a mixer in it? I have been doing spray-throw-and mow (or cultipack). I also have a rolling plow (offset disk) that I am going to start using rather than spray, especially in recovered hay/brush meadows. I am trying to keep the CPD (cost per deer) below $5K! I agree, while watching deer graze, they eat a lot of weeds, even new shoots of Multi flower Rose.

By the way, as far as drills go, I looked hard for a used no-till drill for a number of years. I too was not willing to pay tens of thousands for a big-boy drill like farmers use. I eventually found a used kasco 4' 3pt no-till versa-drill. It is one of the small drills aimed at food plotters. They run about $10K new and I paid 3K for my used one.

It works, but there were lots of issues. I do love the seed metering system as I can plant pretty much any seed mix with precision. It has 5 9" rows. Big-boy drills are much heavier. Most are tow-behind because of the weight but they do make 3-pt models. Depending on tractor size, front counter weights may be needed.

Even with the small 4' kasco, I tried it with my buddies 30hp L-series kubota one year. The 3-point had no issue lifting it, but the weight was so far behind the hitch that the front wheels lifted slightly. I had to add weight to the front of the tractor and I still had issues if I was going up hill.

That is not an issue with my larger Kiot DK45 with loader, but there are others. The heavy big-boy drills are heavy enough to cut to full depth. The use limiting wheels so you can set depth. With this little kasco, you are supposed to shorten the top-link to increase seed depth and lengthen it to decrease depth. It uses a small trailing cultipacker to cover the seed.

The problem is that if I shortened the top-link to get the right seed depth, there was not enough weight on the cultipacker to close the rows and cover the seed. If I planted when the soil was softer and I lengthened the top-link so the cultipacker covered the seed properly, when I raised the hitch, the cultipack was only slightly off the ground. If I was transporting it and made a turn on uneven ground, the cultpacker could easily hit the ground. A few times the seed metering chain fell off when the cultipacker hit.

I eventually solved this problem by buying a hydraulic top-link. I connected a chain between the top-link and the drill. I can control the top-link from the cab. If I shorten the top link all the way, the cultipacker is now far off the ground and I have no transport issues. I then lengthen the top link so there is slack in the chain to plant. This makes the unit flat with the ground so the cultipacker works. It conforms to the ground more like a tow-behind drill. I adjust seed depth by adding weight rather than using the top-link method.

Setup can take some time as I figure out how much weight to add depending on soil conditions, but it is much more useable with the hydraulic top-link.

The next big issue is trash. If I use a cultipacker to lay down winter rye (then spray to kill the WR) It works pretty well. If there is loose vegetation like you might get from mowing, the drill planting feet often clogged. I would often get rows that had no seed because of the clog. I would have to get off the tractor and check for clogs very often. I have since disconnected the see tubes from the planting feet. I've connected them to some extensions I made and I repositioned them so they don't clog, but the drill still can drag dead vegetation instead of cutting through it.

After I made these fixes, it works OK for large seed like corn and soybeans that don't surface broadcast well. When I stopped planting these large seeded warm season annuals in favor of buckwheat and sunn hemp, I found I no longer need it and it was quicker to use the broadcast spreader.

There is still one thing this Kasco does well for me. Sometime when a perennial clover field gets old and infiltrated with grass, I'll spray it with 1 qt/ac glyphosate. This kills the grass but only top-kills the clover. The clover has been fixing N for years which is one reasons grasses infiltrate the clover. The Kasco does a very good job of drilling GHR or cereal into suppressed clover. Timing is important with this technique, you want to have good rain in the forecast. The seed I plan germinate and get above the clover and then the clover bounce back from the roots. The brassica helps use up the N that has been banked. It extends the life of the clover field by a few years.

Here is an example of this technique:

01814a24-edac-4ef4-aa57-8aa9e41d13bd.jpg


Note that because of the banked N, I can plant significant pounds/ac of the brassica. This differs from my fall mix where I keep the brassica component down to about 2lbs/ac/ If the brassica component gets too high, it will shade out other plants in the mix. When I drill it into clover, because the clover has an established root system, this is not an issue as you can see from the pic.
 
I was in your shoes for a long time and finally bit the bullet and bought a 7’ Woods minimal till planter about 5 years ago, it has small and large seed boxes and works great. It cut my planting time by about 2/3rds and I get much better germination, my only regret is that I didn’t buy one many years before!
 
Does the hydraulic top link make the cultipacker cover seed behind your Kasco?This has always been a problem with mine
 
Does the hydraulic top link make the cultipacker cover seed behind your Kasco?This has always been a problem with mine
Yes. It is the combination of the hydraulic top-link and the chain. I don't have a picture handy of the Kasco with the chain and toplink, but here is one of a mower with the same concept:

981a7308-cc4e-4a89-a516-75706b00614a.jpg


You can see that when I extend the hydraulic toplink, the chain gets slack and the implement can sit flat on the ground. It is basically functioning as a tow-behind being pulled by the arms only. With the Kasco sitting flat, the cultipacker is on the ground and woks fine. There are some adjustments on the cultipacker as well I think.

With the drill sitting flat on the ground, there is less pressure on the openers. When my soil is soft, it works well as is. If I'm planting in summer when the soil is dry and harder, I just add a couple buckets of cement on the shelf over the openers.

When I shorten the toplink to the shortest position and lift the hitch, the cultipacker is well of the ground for transport.

Hydraulic toplinks are cheap, and if you have the remotes, they really make hookup much faster for all equipment. It is important to measure before you order one. You want to make sure it will adjust to the right length for all your equipment. It is really great when using a box blade.

Both that mower and the Kasco also work better because with slack in the chain, they conform to the uneven ground. With a toplink in a fixed position, the implement will lift as the tractor goes over uneven ground.

Hope this helps.
 
I am in WNY and our soil is 3" of topsoil, clay, hardpan and stone. I have been bottom plowing in the spring, disk once to smooth. Apply Gly and 2,4d and let it burn down. Then rototill, plant and cultipack. Try to get my planting done before Aug 15. I plant oats, WR, buckwheat, Purple top, 7 Top, and radish. Clover as needed. Using this method the seed bed looks great, but is a lot of work and compacts the soil.

We have started to recover overgrown hay fields. Mostly overgrown with golden rod, autumn olive, honeysuckle and common buck thorn. Mow (HD 8' rotary mower) close to ground, some buck thorn we have to push, and then spray, throw and mow. We acquired an heavy offset disk and are going to try to bypass the plowing and rototilling. The disk will dig the stumps out after a year or two.

I mixed our rotary seeder the same way, but the fine brassica and clover seed seems to migrate to the center and get spread first. So, we have used the belly grinder for them and that is HARD WORK IN AUGUST SUN.

Have to remember that nothing works if you don't get rain!

Thanks, you guys have convinced me we don't need a $10K drill. MORE HERBICIDE!
 
Glad we could be helpful. I started out doing the same thing you are doing wit plowing and tilling to get a nice seed bed. Over time it compacted the clay and burned any OM I had. It took me quite a few years of min-till and then no-till to recover from the damage I did to our soils. The nice thing is that nature will recover, if we let it! Best of luck!
 
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