Came across this disturbing photo.. How often does this happen?

Me too. Look at the coyote's bloody mouth in the top pic of the two above. Gotta remember where it is. It could be below zero and the blood is frozen before it drains off the deer's legs.

It indeed may be legit but I’ve hunted and trapped Canada at -20 ferenheit and I’ve certainly never saw fresh blood freeze n space. Jst not much trust from me of the Internet.
Don’t get me wrong as I don’t mind shooting or trapping predators and have done so. And I’ve dealt w coyotes in my area since the 1980’s. But there is wide misunderstanding of this and other predators that whitetail lovers just refuse to accept. Too late tonight for me to go there now. Maybe one day in the future I won’t mind to have this argument on this forum.


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I dont really suspect that coyotes are serious predators on adult deer in the south. Fawns - that is a different thing. Fetus rates of 1.7 per doe and fawn recruitment of .5 fawns per doe. Coyotes are probably killing hundreds of thousands of fawns every year in my state - and probably the rest of the states across the south.
 
It indeed may be legit but I’ve hunted and trapped Canada at -20 ferenheit and I’ve certainly never saw fresh blood freeze n space. Jst not much trust from me of the Internet.
Don’t get me wrong as I don’t mind shooting or trapping predators and have done so. And I’ve dealt w coyotes in my area since the 1980’s. But there is wide misunderstanding of this and other predators that whitetail lovers just refuse to accept. Too late tonight for me to go there now. Maybe one day in the future I won’t mind to have this argument on this forum.


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I would like to know your thoughts on this. I get told I'm crazy when I pass up shooting coyotes or give them a free pass in gneneral. I'm an experienced trapper and have killed plenty with a bow (but usually don't risk messing up a hunt on flinging arrows at dogs). killing more than I do wouldn't be a problem. But... our does routinely raise twins into adulthood and I've never found evidence of an adult deer being killed by yotes. And... the fact that yotes increase litter size when population drops occur, leaves me little reason to hate on them. And... they kill coons (which seem to be far more prolific than yotes and much harder on quail populations). A few predators in the system are needed for balance, killing yotes only promotes an increase in population, and they prey on other critters that are detrimental. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a coyote lover and I don't think they should be protected. I just don't hate them and want to kill them all. Never saw the evidence that they were really all that hard on a herd. Different regions of the country might be different though.
 
I would like to know your thoughts on this. I get told I'm crazy when I pass up shooting coyotes or give them a free pass in gneneral. I'm an experienced trapper and have killed plenty with a bow (but usually don't risk messing up a hunt on flinging arrows at dogs). killing more than I do wouldn't be a problem. But... our does routinely raise twins into adulthood and I've never found evidence of an adult deer being killed by yotes. And... the fact that yotes increase litter size when population drops occur, leaves me little reason to hate on them. And... they kill coons (which seem to be far more prolific than yotes and much harder on quail populations). A few predators in the system are needed for balance, killing yotes only promotes an increase in population, and they prey on other critters that are detrimental. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a coyote lover and I don't think they should be protected. I just don't hate them and want to kill them all. Never saw the evidence that they were really all that hard on a herd. Different regions of the country might be different though.
I would be glad to do that and will start a new thread this wk when I get a chance as I didn't mean to hijack Chip's thread. Good pic that stimulates lots of thinking and discussion. I've read every study done on yotes the last 30+ years and personal observations as well as hunted and trapped them. Predators can fill a niche in the habitat that can only make it more interesting for those that love its management. Stay tuned....should be interesting.
 
The 3 legged buck I had on camera for a number of years met his demise in the same exact fashion. Coyotes will attack cows in the same manner that are struggling to give birth or even new born calves. We lost a calf 2 years ago that was still alive the morning after he was chewed up like that by coyotes.
 
I have a request for any of you guys on Facebook (I'm not on it myself, or I would do it).

I did some research and found that the pictures were posted on the Canadian Whitetails Facebook page. Since some people question the veracity of these pictures, I think the people who originally posted them should also have the right to defend them.

So, my request is that someone go to that Facebook page and leave them a message. Give them a link to this thread, and ask them to come here and tell us all about the pictures. That seems simple enough to do. I don't know any of the CW people and never even heard of them until I started searching for the pictures source. They might just ignore the request and assume we are all a bunch of lunatics, but who knows - they might actually come here and tell us more.

Anyone willing to do it?
 
Nature is cruel. Always has been, always will be. Hunters should understand that more than most.
 
Here is one of three coyotes taking down a big mule deer buck. This was taken by Dale Pearson.


Here is an excellent link concerning coyotes and deer. It has lots of information, including South Carolina DNR comments. There is a video on this site of two coyotes taking down and killing a young 6 point buck. There are also some other good pictures and videos.

http://www.petersenshunting.com/dee...er-can-these-killers-bring-down-mature-bucks/

Here is a link from Realtree with lots of scientific data that shows coyotes kill a lot of fawns.

https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/how-coyotes-killed-deer-hunting

Here are some more coyote and deer encounters:


 
I have a request for any of you guys on Facebook (I'm not on it myself, or I would do it).

I did some research and found that the pictures were posted on the Canadian Whitetails Facebook page. Since some people question the veracity of these pictures, I think the people who originally posted them should also have the right to defend them.

So, my request is that someone go to that Facebook page and leave them a message. Give them a link to this thread, and ask them to come here and tell us all about the pictures. That seems simple enough to do. I don't know any of the CW people and never even heard of them until I started searching for the pictures source. They might just ignore the request and assume we are all a bunch of lunatics, but who knows - they might actually come here and tell us more.

Anyone willing to do it?

I found a way to send a message to them via the television show web site. It didn't take too long to get a reply:

"Hey Steve, way to busy for that kind of nonsense." Signed - Dean Partridge, Rack Media Inc.

LOL, I sometimes forget how small and unimportant I really am....;)
 
I thought about telling him..."that's okay, I will be pulling my sponsorship of the show and taking it off of my television station....." but, I would hate for him to be up all night trying to figure out who the ____ I am.....:D
 
I suppose if they’re hungry enough the coyotes can chase down any deer. Maybe a big heavy buck makes an easy target because they’re not gonna be able to run very long or swing their antlers at the coyotes.
I guess that’s just how nature works. It’s cruel but at the same time it’s beautiful.


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I just got an email from Dean. He changed his mind and came and looked at the post. Shown below is what he said:

"Steve, I registered to reply to you however it was not yet approved. It seems that you did not like my reply, I will explain a bit better.

We posted three pictures off of our trail camera. There’s no blood on the snow maybe because they are chasing him, I don’t know. He was dead and eaten just 40 yards from there. Those three pictures are mere seconds. The photo’s seem to have reached several Million people and many have saved them to post on social media and forums, which brings alot of comments and questions. At the end of the day this is a deer that we have showcased on our program for multiple years, and now he’s dead. We ended up with some very rare pics off of a trail camera in the area. If anyone thinks they are fake or altered, essentially- thats good for them, it makes no difference to me. Me saying there not fake wont change their minds. I have no need to run around the internet and “defend” them as you noted, it would be endless, and as big of a waste of time as would be creating fake trail camera pictures. Which is what I mean by- no time for nonsense.

Ps: It’s ok, I’ll sleep alright :)

Regards,

Dean "

I want to thank Dean for the reply, and I hope when his registration gets approved that he contributes to the forum. I personally have no doubt that the pictures are real.

So there you have it folks - straight from the source. Enjoy......I know I am...;)

Merry Christmas - Steve
 
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See, Abraham Lincoln was correct. He said everything was true on the internet. And yes I’ve seen adult deer chased by coyotes personally. No doubt about that can happen. And I know of love of predators by some Canadian outfitters first hand.
Odd how the squirrel remnants I found last weekend from being nailed by my hawk had covered the dry leaves with a mess of shit. Still runny from the kill. Guess a squirrel jst has more innards. Wonder what it would’ve looked like in snow at -2 F?
Cool pics nonetheless. Cameras catch some amazing things. But yet that snow jst so perfectly white... never had that happen trailing a wounded deer in the snow. Sorry, jst thinking out loud. And it’s late.


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I have watched a pair of coyotes take down a healthy doe they ran until she couldn't run anymore in person. I was in a tree stand with a bow and saw it happen 1 bench below me at about 150 yards...

I have watched a single coyote kill a button buck while I was a youngster of 17 while I was fishing along a creek. Heard the deer bawling and commotion so I popped up into a hayfield and coyote had him by the throat. I scared the coyote off but the deer died in front of me anyway.

No love for them or bears...
 
We also know it might not have been a “healthy” deer - maybe an injury slowed that deer to where the coyotes found it an easier target than an uninjured healthy doe. Coyotes are very successful predators - I guess they are in every state and canadian province and through mexico - with the exception of Hawaii. They arent that successful because they cant adjust and do what is necessary to survive.
 
Multiple predators are hard on adult bucks because they will try to fight and fend them off with there antlers while the others get their licks in from behind and weaken them. Most of the bucks are already weak from the rut then the weather weakens them more.
 
I guess I'm just a natural born skeptic, a bucket of cold water, doubting Thomas, or an old curmudgeon!
I was surprised by how many wanted to accept such a sensational picture dragged in from somewhere else (Facebook, the source of all that's right and good!)! Real or not, I just have a hard time accepting what I'm seeing. Denial? I found the source also and looked at the other pictures in the series. I'll accept the story as presented.

This is hard for me to say. I'm either brave or stupid. My wife says its the latter. How the coyote population is affecting the deer population is still an open question for me. I know many of you have seen and described your encounters. This probably isn't the time to try to break the tension with humor, but I once saw a man pull a rabbit out of his hat. For the longest time I was sure every hat had a rabbit in it! Anyhow....

The difficult thing about talking whitetail deer is the diverse geology, geography, and habitat in which they thrive. So, for me to still have an open question is all about me. Too often I've seen what seems to be cause and effect actual be a red herring. Let's leave that alone for a while. Kill all the coyotes you want. I'm just not sure it will make a difference. It might! I'm just not ready to jump on the wagon.

No doubt, fawn recruitment can be a problem. The one study I follow and referenced here before is the Penn State Deer Forest study. Fawns are collared and necropsied if they die. I am shocked at the rate of mortality. it's something like 50%! I'm going to assume the vets doing the investigation are competent and objective. I am surprised at what is predating the fawns. Bears and bobcats. To my recollection not one coyote has killed a collard fawn. Yes, they have scavenged after the fact. I know, it's a study and how it applies to your situation is a leap you'll have to make to judge the impact on you.

In the Virginia County where I live and hunt there are no bears. I'm not sure about bobcats. There are coyotes everywhere, so I hear. And, coyotes are decimating the deer herd, so I hear Yet, hunters kill more deer today than when we couldn't spell coyote. We have less habitat, fewer hunters, more coyotes and we kill more deer.

Antlerless deer - does killed would seem to be predictive of what the herd looks like next year and the year after...

1970 - 26
1980 - 109
1990 - 160
2000 - 668
2010 - 1311
2016 - 1050

So, there's the smoking gun, right? The decline from 2010 to last year? No.
2011 to 2014 we killed so many does its a marvel there's a herd left!

2010 - 1574; 2011 1356; 2012 1582; 2013 1208; 2014 1283.

Maybe that's effective coyote control! Kill 'em all before they do.
Except for nine or ten counties in Virginia this is typical. Yet coyotes are destroying the deer herd? Our success rate now compared to close-by years is way short, but looking back further, we are still having a good time - for now.

I should note, the increasing number of does harvested is a direct result of what was an increasing number of days open for killing "either sex."
 
I don’t want to beat a dead horse and I’m not going to argue about the pic. This is a busy wk and will prob be couple days before starting that thread I promised. I don’t want anyone to think I don’t respect what affect predators have but I do want them to respect the natural balances that occur in nature and how amazingly she controls herself. And the very predator that we may hate can teach us much about how we can become better hunters ourselves.
As a precursor , think about the two forms of predation of additive and compensatory. Life for wildlife can be harsh but it is so important that what we feel is evil may in its own way provide salvation for a species. I will start that thread in a day or two and we can argue it at length without jeopardizing poor Chips post of the original pics. My apologies for doing that Chip.


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