Theoretical Deer AND Turkey Farm

[Charlieyca]

What would your ideal farm look like if you have to manage it to maximize both deer and turkey success. Not worried about harvest ability of each species. Purely how would you attract and sustain a maximum population of BOTH deer and turkey. 50 acre farm surrounded by diverse habitat with mix of agriculture and forest. Average populations of both deer and turkey in surrounding areas. What would you do if you had a blank slate? (you can assume a few mature roost trees)

 

[gut_pile]

In my area of the country (GA), and I would think it probably holds true for most of the US, if you manage for turkeys, you'll have deer.

Not sure if you managed just for deer, you would have many turkeys.

 

[Native Hunter]

Turkeys in my area stay close to where they like to roost. By close I mean a few acres. During breeding season (which is generally close to most spring turkey seasons) both hens and toms range out more than normal, but not an extreme distance. Hens will range out even further than toms. During the winter months they sometimes form big flocks that stay together and may range out to different locations. But by spring, the big flocks break up and things go back to normal.

They like roosting places where they can see where they will fly down really well. That could be into an open field or a fairly open woods. They also tend to avoid places where they are disturbed (especially by humans) when they are roosting or going to roost. If you have too much human presence, they will change roosting spots to a more secluded place.

Thick spots may be used by hens to nest, but generally a turkey avoids thick spots because they need to be able to see danger coming from a good distance, and also need to be able to fly quickly without catching their wings on brush.

Typically most farms that have normal diverse habitat types will be good for both deer and turkey. However, you can coax deer to be almost anywhere, but if habitat lacks some of the essentials for turkey, they will be as stubborn as a mule and find another place to roost and spend most of their time regardless of what else you do..

Food may be a good draw for turkeys where they have the necessary essentials, but food will not make turkey roost at a place they don't like. And if a turkey isn't roosting a reasonable distance from where you want to hunt them, the chances of seeing one is slim.

So, secluded, preferred roosting nearby is the key to having lots of turkeys during spring season.

Some things are hard to describe and put in words. The answer to your question is like that. But, like Justice Stewart eluded to in Jacobellis v. Ohio when trying to describe pornography - "...I know it when I see it."

 

[Charlieyca]

Turkeys in my area stay close to where they like to roost. By close I mean a few acres. During breeding season (which is generally close to most spring turkey seasons) both hens and toms range out more than normal, but not an extreme distance. Hens will range out even further than toms. During the winter months they sometimes form big flocks that stay together and may range out to different locations. But by spring, the big flocks break up and things go back to normal.

They like roosting places where they can see where they will fly down really well. That could be into an open field or a fairly open woods. They also tend to avoid places where they are disturbed (especially by humans) when they are roosting or going to roost. If you have too much human presence, they will change roosting spots to a more secluded place.

Thick spots may be used by hens to nest, but generally a turkey avoids thick spots because they need to be able to see danger coming from a good distance, and also need to be able to fly quickly without catching their wings on brush.

Typically most farms that have normal diverse habitat types will be good for both deer and turkey. However, you can coax deer to be almost anywhere, but if habitat lacks some of the essentials for turkey, they will be as stubborn as a mule and find another place to roost and spend most of their time regardless of what else you do..

Food may be a good draw for turkeys where they have the necessary essentials, but food will not make turkey roost at a place they don't like. And if a turkey isn't roosting a reasonable distance from where you want to hunt them, the chances of seeing one is slim.

So, secluded, preferred roosting nearby is the key to having lots of turkeys during spring season.

Some things are hard to describe and put in words. The answer to your question is like that. But, like Justice Stewart eluded to in Jacobellis v. Ohio when trying to describe pornography - "...I know it when I see it."

Hens ranging out further than toms is my observation as well. On other properties where turkeys were limited, it always seemed the hens show up first, and sometimes a tom would be show up later in the season. Never see toms, without seeing hens around. I agree with the clearing for fly up and fly down. I do not have those on my property. Trees yes, clearings no. I agree the secluded roost with clearings for ease of flydown is important. That is my number one goal with turkeys on my property.

 

[E_308]

Nesting cover. Large patches of weedy areas that make it hard for predators to find nests/hens. Open areas for strutting. Bugging areas for polts without a lot of overhead perches for avian predators. I try to kill as many coons, possums, and skunks as I can. I don't mess with coyotes to much (because they will kill the above too). Foodplots = clover for spring, grain for fall (milo, wheat, rye, beans). Pull in the hens in the spring gobblers will follow. In my part of MO weather is the biggest factor in turkey numbers, wet springs = fewer turkeys.

 

[g squared 23]

The more open wooded timber with large roosting trees, the better. Too much thick ground cover and they can't see predators coming.

So I would argue that the better and thicker the deer cover, the poorer the turkey habitat. A large enough property can have a mix of open woods with large roosting trees as well as dense thickets for whitetails can have the best of both. It's a difficult balance.

 

[Kwood]

G squared hit it. Need open mature timber and thick pockets.


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[Charlieyca]

Im only working with 35 acres, so I dont think I will have the large open areas they need. However, I want to have the corridors that allow them to cross, and enough areas that provide bugging and nesting habitat. I believe those areas coincide better with deer management over the open roosting areas and large mature trees, (which I lack).

 

[OkieKubota]

We just bought the turkey roost in our area. We owned the 80 acres bordering to the east of this 10 acres and had plenty of turkeys using our thick woods. The turkeys fly down in the woods so not having open area to fly down into is not a deal breaker by any means...

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[Charlieyca]

Do you think they would fly down to you if there was open fields to the west? My North neighbor has good roost trees, but to the north of him (opposite side as me) are open fields.

 

[OkieKubota]

Do you think they would fly down to you if there was open fields to the west? My North neighbor has good roost trees, but to the north of him (opposite side as me) are open fields.

Charlie - their is an open cow pasture west of the new 10 just about 670 feet away but the turkeys don't go that direction. They fly down into that 10 acres of thick stuff we just bought and work their way into out 80 acres and mill around all day long on our 80 (mainly around our south plot) and then work their way back there in the evening. with this new 10 acres rarely if ever will the turkeys ever be off out property. We gave them water so now they can nest in the hinge cuts nearby, we gave them food, and the roost trees were provided by mother nature and the strut zone is in our south plot...

 

[Charlieyca]

Thank for the feedback, as it gives me hope and confidence I can achieve the same on my property. Know a way to grow roost trees quick ??? hahaha

 

[OkieKubota]

Thank for the feedback, as it gives me hope and confidence I can achieve the same on my property. Know a way to grow roost trees quick ??? hahaha

In the photo I posted above you will see several Green Trees as that photo was taken in winter. Those trees are all Huge native Shortleaf pine trees. All of the turkeys using our area roost in pines...haven't ever seen one in a hardwood tree yet...

On our deer lease they roost in huge red oak trees...

 

[Charlieyca]

How big of an area do those roost trees makeup? I have a 1/2 acre of mature pines (approximately 25 trees) that the county owns close to the middle of my property. Would you think turkeys could possibly roost in that small of an area if not pressured?

 

[OkieKubota]

How big of an area do those roost trees makeup? I have a 1/2 acre of mature pines (approximately 25 trees) that the county owns close to the middle of my property. Would you think turkeys could possibly roost in that small of an area if not pressured?

1/2 acre is enough if they have good upper limbs. The birds in our area seek out the tallest trees for roost trees and they roost high on the ridges and work their way down into the bottoms in the mornings and back up the ridges in the evenings...

 

[Charlieyca]

Thanks okie, its right next to a creek bottom so may need to thin them some trails through the cane and briars

 

[Doctorbrady]

My farm has fewer turkeys since I began aggressively managing for deer by improving cover. Tall native grasses and thick forested areas are not ideal for turkeys. I still have a good number of turkeys roosting along my creek, and I always cut down the tall cover in the fields along the creek a month or two before season to encourage the turkeys to use them (which they always do). I still manage a few close encounters with birds every season, but the turkeys prefer the south neighbors tree scattered cattle pastures and the west neighbors freshly planted crop fields. My deer numbers on the other hand have sky rocketed, and mature buck sightings continue to grow most years. You need to find a compromise that suits you. In my opinion small acreage is a crap shoot at best for reliable turkey populations unless you have substantially better roosting sights than your neighbors.

 

[OkieKubota]

Here is what I am working with. Outlined in red is whitetail hollow. Purple is new 10 we added. Turkeys roost where deer bed icon is and work their way south to the south plot. You will notice semi open cattle pasture to the north but the turkeys spend the entire day in the woods or our south plot and never leave the property all day.

Several guys hunt that field to the north for turkeys with no luck...turkeys always head south on our place from that roost...guys across fence calling makes no difference...

Turkeys can certainly adapt to thick woods and have. My theory is that guys have hunted that field for turkeys so hard that now the turkeys don't use it...they stay to the woods or that plot...

I have a hen nesting between that south plot and our house which is the house south across the road...

These are some photos of that plot this evening...yes the turkeys were all over this plot when I got out there again...

 

[Charlieyca]

How thick is the area between the roost and food plot? It looks to be hardwoods that lost their leaves during winter. Your edge feathering/blockade along side your plots make it where deer cant see into the plot and I cant see out!

 

[OkieKubota]

How thick is the area between the roost and food plot? It looks to be hardwoods that lost their leaves during winter. Your edge feathering/blockade along side your plots make it where deer cant see into the plot and I cant see out!

Overhead was taken in winter. Plot is much bigger now than it was when photo was taken. Solid woods...fairly thick now as everything is in full greenout...lots of hinge cuts in there, turkeys work those thick hinge cuts too and I have a hen nesting in a thick hinge right now. I am unsure of who originally said Turkeys don't like thick woods but I am glad the birds in NE Oklahoma never read or heard that because I have hunted Turkeys in thick woods for many years...

Dozer piles on sides of the plot...deer not seeing in is a good thing...bucks have to enter to see does in the plots...and there is the break of a rise in that plot so can't see from end to end of it either without traveling in it...all good things. I have a stand on the plot but very, very rarely ever hunt a plot. My favorite game for deer and turkey is ambush between bedding and plot... Turkeys are like clockwork, fly down in the woods out of those pines, scratch and work their way south to that plot, hang out most of the day right around it, work their way back to the pines in late evening and go to roost. Turkeys never leave the 90 acres...

Guys hunting those fields to the north east of the roost tell me they used to slaughter the turkeys in that field but they haven't killed a bird in the last 3 years there now...said they won't come over...