Chestnut Production?

[gurgalunas]

Hey fellas. Been lurking here off-and-on, but haven't posted much. I caught the chestnut bug back when QDMA had a forum and have been improving my techniques since.

Not a commercial grower, still a hobbyist, but I do grow a fair number. I've got my trees set up in racks with drip irrigation, which I think is essential to keeping trees going over multiple seasons. It only takes one lapse in watering to waste a season's worth of work...

I can get trees to the 30"-48" range in year 1, starting in deepots (2"x5") for a couple months, and potting up to Rootmaker 1g. For year 2, I move them into 3g root pouches, typically getting 6-8' trees by the end of the second season. I do move a few into 10g root pouches for the third season, but they take up a lot of space. I manage to get them to 10'-15' by the end of the 3rd season.

I use a blend of mostly Promix with some planting mix added. The planting mixes are composted pine bark fines, coarse composts, etc. They add more "chunkyness" to the promix. Osmocote is great, but is pretty costly. I use a slow release 141414 called woodace instead.

 

[RGrizzzz]

@gurgalunas , Promix offers bark based mixes. Look at their BK and BRK series.

 

[mattpatt]

Hey fellas. Been lurking here off-and-on, but haven't posted much. I caught the chestnut bug back when QDMA had a forum and have been improving my techniques since.

Not a commercial grower, still a hobbyist, but I do grow a fair number. I've got my trees set up in racks with drip irrigation, which I think is essential to keeping trees going over multiple seasons. It only takes one lapse in watering to waste a season's worth of work...

I can get trees to the 30"-48" range in year 1, starting in deepots (2"x5") for a couple months, and potting up to Rootmaker 1g. For year 2, I move them into 3g root pouches, typically getting 6-8' trees by the end of the second season. I do move a few into 10g root pouches for the third season, but they take up a lot of space. I manage to get them to 10'-15' by the end of the 3rd season.

I use a blend of mostly Promix with some planting mix added. The planting mixes are composted pine bark fines, coarse composts, etc. They add more "chunkyness" to the promix. Osmocote is great, but is pretty costly. I use a slow release 141414 called woodace instead.

Sounds like you got it down. I try not to grow to many in pots anymore because I don’t have time to constantly water them once they’re planted out in the field. Where I’m located, it just gets too hot.


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[gurgalunas]

@gurgalunas , Promix offers bark based mixes. Look at their BK and BRK series.

Hadn't seen those. They look similar to what I'm mixing in with the promix bales. Doesn't look like they come in the big bales though. I've had good luck with 3.8 cuft compressed, cut with the coarse stuff. I get 84 of the RM 1g pots from one bales when mixed, and it costs about $1/pot including fertilizer.

I'll have to look around and price out the BK stuff.

 

[yoderjac]

Hadn't seen those. They look similar to what I'm mixing in with the promix bales. Doesn't look like they come in the big bales though. I've had good luck with 3.8 cuft compressed, cut with the coarse stuff. I get 84 of the RM 1g pots from one bales when mixed, and it costs about $1/pot including fertilizer.

I'll have to look around and price out the BK stuff.

I often mixed in cheap pine bark with my Promix. The first advantage was cost. It also makes the mix more chunky which leaves more voids for roots to fill in an air pruning system.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Hadn't seen those. They look similar to what I'm mixing in with the promix bales. Doesn't look like they come in the big bales though. I've had good luck with 3.8 cuft compressed, cut with the coarse stuff. I get 84 of the RM 1g pots from one bales when mixed, and it costs about $1/pot including fertilizer.

I'll have to look around and price out the BK stuff.

If you want something in compressed bales, look at the Promix HP. Some very well-respected chestnut growers use that.

 

[yoderjac]

If you want something in compressed bales, look at the Promix HP. Some very well-respected chestnut growers use that.

HP with pine bark added was more economical and worked even better for me.

 

[KSQ2]

Well, it's getting closer to that time. I've been saving up my Upside cash for a while now and I'm going to put an order in on Amazon for some R18s and some Promix HP. I'll order some pine bark nuggets later when I order the 3 gallon root makers. I'll be working with the nuts Matt sent me last fall. About 2/3s of them are in tubes on the Massey direct seeded, the last third will get the good life for a couple years. This will make up all of the tree work we're going to do this year. I don't want to add anymore trees than the direct seeded oaks and chestnuts, I'm SO tired of watering in the spring/summer/fall. Though I'm very hopeful that won't be needed this year!!!

 

[RGrizzzz]

HP with pine bark added was more economical and worked even better for me.

I just picked up 6 bags of Lambert LM-16. We will see how it goes this year.

How do you all keep your RM18s from drying out too fast? Are they outside?

 

[yoderjac]

I just picked up 6 bags of Lambert LM-16. We will see how it goes this year.

How do you all keep your RM18s from drying out too fast? Are they outside?

Watering is the biggest issue with 18s. My process was to start the nuts as a cabin fever project in the winter inside, under lights. I saturate my 18s until water runs out the bottom holes. I then let them dry out. When I water an 18 and it stops dripping, I pick it up. I consider that approximate weight as a "full tank". I would let them dry out until my fell by weight was about "1/4 tank". If you let them get much drier, it can be a problem. If you see the leaves begin to droop, you waited too long. Saturate them immediately. Most will recover.

I would try to time my trees so the roots had filled the 18 about the time our last threat of frost passed. I would then transplant them to 1 gal RB2s, remove the nuts, and move them out to my lower deck that is protected from direct sun after early morning. I would slowly acclimate them to full sun.

18s need to be watched closely for watering, even indoors. Outdoors would require even more vigilance. As roots get closer and closer to filling the container taking up the voids, it become harder and harder to water them regardless of container size. So, will all containers, I used watering tables when this happens. Instead of top-watering them, I would fill a tub with rain water and dunk the entire container. Since rain water was precious to me because of the number of trees I was doing at the time, I had drain tables that I would put them on that would collect all the rain water that drained out of the containers when I dunked them.

I believe @mattpatt is in Tx and grows his all outdoors in root pruning containers. He may have more insights on 18s used outdoors.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Watering is the biggest issue with 18s. My process was to start the nuts as a cabin fever project in the winter inside, under lights. I saturate my 18s until water runs out the bottom holes. I then let them dry out. When I water an 18 and it stops dripping, I pick it up. I consider that approximate weight as a "full tank". I would let them dry out until my fell by weight was about "1/4 tank". If you let them get much drier, it can be a problem. If you see the leaves begin to droop, you waited too long. Saturate them immediately. Most will recover.

I would try to time my trees so the roots had filled the 18 about the time our last threat of frost passed. I would then transplant them to 1 gal RB2s, remove the nuts, and move them out to my lower deck that is protected from direct sun after early morning. I would slowly acclimate them to full sun.

18s need to be watched closely for watering, even indoors. Outdoors would require even more vigilance. As roots get closer and closer to filling the container taking up the voids, it become harder and harder to water them regardless of container size. So, will all containers, I used watering tables when this happens. Instead of top-watering them, I would fill a tub with rain water and dunk the entire container. Since rain water was precious to me because of the number of trees I was doing at the time, I had drain tables that I would put them on that would collect all the rain water that drained out of the containers when I dunked them.

I believe @mattpatt is in Tx and grows his all outdoors in root pruning containers. He may have more insights on 18s used outdoors.

I've tried RM18's a few times, starting them later mid-March indoors. They get off to a decent start, but once I move them outside, they dry out quickly. I think they need to be in a greenhouse, and/or on an automatic watering timer. I could possibly pull that off this year.

I might just start everything in the 1 gallon Rootmaker pots this year. Watering will be a little more forgiving.

 

[mattpatt]

Watering is the biggest issue with 18s. My process was to start the nuts as a cabin fever project in the winter inside, under lights. I saturate my 18s until water runs out the bottom holes. I then let them dry out. When I water an 18 and it stops dripping, I pick it up. I consider that approximate weight as a "full tank". I would let them dry out until my fell by weight was about "1/4 tank". If you let them get much drier, it can be a problem. If you see the leaves begin to droop, you waited too long. Saturate them immediately. Most will recover.

I would try to time my trees so the roots had filled the 18 about the time our last threat of frost passed. I would then transplant them to 1 gal RB2s, remove the nuts, and move them out to my lower deck that is protected from direct sun after early morning. I would slowly acclimate them to full sun.

18s need to be watched closely for watering, even indoors. Outdoors would require even more vigilance. As roots get closer and closer to filling the container taking up the voids, it become harder and harder to water them regardless of container size. So, will all containers, I used watering tables when this happens. Instead of top-watering them, I would fill a tub with rain water and dunk the entire container. Since rain water was precious to me because of the number of trees I was doing at the time, I had drain tables that I would put them on that would collect all the rain water that drained out of the containers when I dunked them.

I believe @mattpatt is in Tx and grows his all outdoors in root pruning containers. He may have more insights on 18s used outdoors.

I used I plastic container from the dollar store that was slightly bigger than the tray and would set tray and all over into it. Fill with water up about 1/4 way on the pots and let it soak in from the bottom via capillary action. This works great for a few trays.


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[yoderjac]

I've tried RM18's a few times, starting them later mid-March indoors. They get off to a decent start, but once I move them outside, they dry out quickly. I think they need to be in a greenhouse, and/or on an automatic watering timer. I could possibly pull that off this year.

I might just start everything in the 1 gallon Rootmaker pots this year. Watering will be a little more forgiving.

The only issue I see is that the purpose of the 18s is to air prune the tap root at about 4". That is really helpful and most of the lateral root branching occurs in the 1st 4" above the air prune.

A lot might depend on your climate. wind can dry them out quickly. Cutting the top and bottom out of a large cardboard box to act as a wind shield might help. A greenhouse would certainly be helpful.

I've only used 18s outdoors a few time and they certainly needed watered daily in my situation.

One more thing to consider. Once the tap root is pruned, transplanting early won't hurt. In fact, Dr Whitcomb says that you are better off transplanting a bit early rather than a bit late. You might want to consider using 18s just long enough to get the tap root pruned and then move them to 1 gal containers.

I find that chestnuts are too finicky for automatic watering. They don't like wet feet. They can be saturated, but then want to dry out. Even indoors, the timing seems to vary quite a bit.

 

[KSQ2]

I used I plastic container from the dollar store that was slightly bigger than the tray and would set tray and all over into it. Fill with water up about 1/4 way on the pots and let it soak in from the bottom via capillary action. This works great for a few trays.


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How often would you fill the tray Matt?

 

[mattpatt]

How often would you fill the tray Matt?

Depends on how hot it is. Low 90s every other day. Mid 90s and above every day. Just have to go out and check them. Those RM18s dry out fast in extreme heat. Also depends on your soil. Best thing to do is get them out of the root pruning containers as soon as possible before it gets too hot and go to a 1 or 2 gal gal root trapper bag for the remainder of the summer.


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[KSQ2]

The only issue I see is that the purpose of the 18s is to air prune the tap root at about 4". That is really helpful and most of the lateral root branching occurs in the 1st 4" above the air prune.

A lot might depend on your climate. wind can dry them out quickly. Cutting the top and bottom out of a large cardboard box to act as a wind shield might help. A greenhouse would certainly be helpful.

I've only used 18s outdoors a few time and they certainly needed watered daily in my situation.

One more thing to consider. Once the tap root is pruned, transplanting early won't hurt. In fact, Dr Whitcomb says that you are better off transplanting a bit early rather than a bit late. You might want to consider using 18s just long enough to get the tap root pruned and then move them to 1 gal containers.

I find that chestnuts are too finicky for automatic watering. They don't like wet feet. They can be saturated, but then want to dry out. Even indoors, the timing seems to vary quite a bit.

How can you tell the tap root has been pruned? Can you see it through the bottom of the RM 18s?

 

[KSQ2]

HP with pine bark added was more economical and worked even better for me.

At what rates do you mix the HP and pine bark?

 

[yoderjac]

At what rates do you mix the HP and pine bark?

There are holes in the bottom of the 18s, but I can't really see the tap root. Nuts are cheap. They put a tap root down pretty quickly. I'd probably just wait till I got a few inches of top growth and transplant one. You can check the tap root when you transplant. If the tap root hasn't been pruned, wait a little longer to transplant the next one.

 

[KSQ2]

There are holes in the bottom of the 18s, but I can't really see the tap root. Nuts are cheap. They put a tap root down pretty quickly. I'd probably just wait till I got a few inches of top growth and transplant one. You can check the tap root when you transplant. If the tap root hasn't been pruned, wait a little longer to transplant the next one.

What is exactly meant by pruned? Sorry, I’m very new at this; I’ve just thrown stuff in plastic pots in the past and let them stay way too long.

Also, how much pine bark do you put in the hp?

 

[yoderjac]

What is exactly meant by pruned? Sorry, I’m very new at this; I’ve just thrown stuff in plastic pots in the past and let them stay way too long.

Also, how much pine bark do you put in the hp?

When a root hits air, the tip desiccates and stops growing. This spurs the plant to produce branching, mostly in the 4" preceding this point.

I don't use the pine bark in 18s. I use it in the larger containers. 50/50 worked for me. It is not critical. It just helps create some more voids for the roots to fill and keep the cost down if you are doing this in volume like i was.