Chestnut Production?

[wbpdeer]

KSQ2

I buy what is called pine fines from my local garden center in my town. In the past I would use pine bark mini but over time their quality control slpped greatly on the size of that product. Going to the pine fines has really worked well for me. As yoderjac does, I don't use the pine fines in the rootmaker 18s, but when I move the seedling to a larger pot from the rootmaker 18s, then I add the pine fines. I like about 30 to 35% fines, an HP mix at 30 to 40 %, with perlite, vermuculite and some compost. I add Osmocote Plus too but I see it getting more expensive each time I replace what I have used up.

If you have any questions, I would be glad to share what I know. As I tell my grandson, you know what you call a mistake? It is called experience and I have more than my share of experience.

wbpdeer

 

[KSQ2]

KSQ2

I buy what is called pine fines from my local garden center in my town. In the past I would use pine bark mini but over time their quality control slpped greatly on the size of that product. Going to the pine fines has really worked well for me. As yoderjac does, I don't use the pine fines in the rootmaker 18s, but when I move the seedling to a larger pot from the rootmaker 18s, then I add the pine fines. I like about 30 to 35% fines, an HP mix at 30 to 40 %, with perlite, vermuculite and some compost. I add Osmocote Plus too but I see it getting more expensive each time I replace what I have used up.

If you have any questions, I would be glad to share what I know. As I tell my grandson, you know what you call a mistake? It is called experience and I have more than my share of experience.

wbpdeer

I’ll be leaning on all of you guys when I begin purchasing material. I’ll be buying the R18s and hp soon; but holding off on some of the other stuff.

 

[yoderjac]

I’ll be leaning on all of you guys when I begin purchasing material. I’ll be buying the R18s and hp soon; but holding off on some of the other stuff.

I stopped growing trees a few years ago as I'm getting older and that part of our habitat improvement is done. I'd take any advice Wayne offers as he is still growing them and is keep up with the latest.

 

[wbpdeer]

I had some real good news yesterday. I have buried chestnuts for two years, in Fall of 2021 & 2022. Digging them up is no fun but it works if you are playing the numbers. I filled 4 dorm/beer fridges up and put 2 gallon buckets and small plastic paint containers in the hole.

So in the 2023 I had so many chestnuts already stuck in growing media I made a decision to put together 2 ICU Tupperware containers full of nuts from the burial buckets and piled play sand on them. To me ICU represents Intensive Care Unit, the last effort to save some of them.

I placed both Tupperware containers beside my water spigot so any time I water they got a double dose, before I water all of the seedlings and then again when I returned to turn off the water. Well, they went nuts and bushed out big time. I had a young high school freshman helping me and gave him a chance to dig a few out for him. The rest I gave to the High School Ag teacher.

They up potted 97 and have them in their Greenhouse. They will hopefully sell a bunch of those to support their program. They have a huge spring sell and I buy ferns for my wife from that sale.

I am continuously amazed at how hard chestnut persist at survival. Some of them are just not going to die no matter how much stress you place them under. How deep were these containers, about 3 1/2 inches deep.

These 97 seedlings push me just above 590 for the 2023 cycle that I gave away. I handed the seedlings over in early December and we just got back in touch to check on the survivors this week.

 

[KSQ2]

I've been doing a lot of browsing for pine bark and I cannot find any that doesn't have bad reviews. It's not stocked anywhere locally, except Lowes; and the brand they sell has horrible reviews. If I buy the expensive stuff, it rivals the cost of the Promix HP, is there any reason to buy, if it doesn't lower the cost of the promix? I guess I could buy a bag of the bad stuff from Lowes and just filter out the good pine bark to use???

 

[RGrizzzz]

I've been doing a lot of browsing for pine bark and I cannot find any that doesn't have bad reviews. It's not stocked anywhere locally, except Lowes; and the brand they sell has horrible reviews. If I buy the expensive stuff, it rivals the cost of the Promix HP, is there any reason to buy, if it doesn't lower the cost of the promix? I guess I could buy a bag of the bad stuff from Lowes and just filter out the good pine bark to use???

Promix and other brands make bark based mixes. Check the BK and BRK series from PT horticulture. Lambert and Sungro have bark based mixes. I just got some Lambert LM-16 from the Greenhouse supply dealer near me

 

[yoderjac]

I used promix and added more bark to make the mix chunkier and save money. I did not care about reviews. This is a non-typical use of pine bark, so the reviews are likely for other applications. I just bought the cheap stuff from Lowes. If I was not growing trees by the hundreds, I wouldn't have worried about adding pine bark. For a few trees the cost of a single bale of Promix is not outrageous. It does add up when you are planting in volume.

One more note I'd make for @KSQ2 who is just starting out.

Don't be tempted to start trees early in a greenhouse. Dr. Whitcomb warns against this and I got to see the difference first hand. The angle of the sun in the sky is too low making the intensity too low. If you want to start trees early you NEED to use artificial light. You don't need fancy grow lights. I used cheap fluorescent shop lights. Light intensity diminishes with the distance squared. Fluorescent or LED are cool. Shop lights are 4' long. So, you can organize your 18s in express trays by height and hang the shop lights on an angle keeping them several inches above all trees.

It is easy to be deceived by what looks like good results. Trees will look great above ground, but the issue occurs with root development. A number of years ago, I corresponded with another guy who was also growing trees in root makers. We both happened to be growing pawpaw trees from seed. We started them at the same time. He started his in a greenhouse with no artificial lights. I started mine in the basement with shop lights.

We exchanged pictures along the way. Both his an mine all looked great above the soil. When it came time to transplant them, mine had nice dense root system with lots of good branching. His have very poor roots and most eventually died.

I don't think this matters for direct seeders. They can plant nuts anytime. The reason is that the energy from the nut mostly goes to putting down the tap root. Even when the weather allows top growth to begin, most of the energy is going to putting down that tap root. Normal root branching does not occur until later in the life of the tree.

 

[KSQ2]

Well, the nuts are in the R18s. I wish I’d paid a little closer attention to this thread before ordering. I got the one piece R18 tray, so I might be in for a chore when it comes time to transplant; I might be asking for advice. I like how the Promix HP doesn’t shrink down to nothing when watering like cheaper potting soils. I put the nuts about a quarter inch down, being very careful with those that already have radicles. Several of the nuts are almost fully exposed after watering the first time, is that ok?
Thanks again from the bottom of my heart for all of the advice; I have high hopes for healthy trees to put in the ground in the coming years!

 

[yoderjac]

Some folks just set the nuts on top . I prefer to sprinkle a little promix over them to keep them from drying out. I don't think it is a big deal. The roots will fill the voids in the promix over time and they will become harder and harder to water. 18s are generally good for 12-16 weeks. Since they are starting at the same time, you can probably transplant the entire tray at once. I find the express trays more important when starting them indoors under lights. The express trays let me organize them by height and then hang shop lights over them at an angle. You don't have that issue when starting them later outdoors. The plastic is different on the cups that come with the express trays. You can reuse them virtually forever. The plastic with the non-express trays is more brittle and will crack over time. You should get several reuses out of them.

Best of luck!

 

[KSQ2]

Hey guys, another question for you. How often do I need to water the nuts in the R18s, before they sprout?

 

[yoderjac]

It is no different than after they sprout. They don't like wet feet. The technique that worked best for me was to pick up an 18 after planting the nut and get a feel for the weight. Consider that an empty tank. Then, soak an 18 until water was running out the bottom. I'd then pick it up and get a feel for the weight. Consider that a full tank. When the tank get to 1/4 full, it is time to soak it until water is dripping out the bottom again.

There are all kinds of factors that affect watering. Humidity, temperature, and wind if they are outside. They will dry out at different rates. Once they start to grow, some will grow faster and use more water than others.

I've never been successful trying to water by schedule. I check 18s at least once a day indoors. You may need to check more often outdoors. @mattpatt may have better outdoor advise. This 1/4 tank method seems to work well. After a while you get a feel for it.

One more indicator. once trees sprout and start producing top growth, if you see the leaves droop, you've waited a bit too long. Soak them immediately. Most will bounce back fine if you detect it when they start drooping. If you wait another day, you will lose some.

 

[letemgrow]

Well, the nuts are in the R18s. I wish I’d paid a little closer attention to this thread before ordering. I got the one piece R18 tray, so I might be in for a chore when it comes time to transplant; I might be asking for advice. I like how the Promix HP doesn’t shrink down to nothing when watering like cheaper potting soils. I put the nuts about a quarter inch down, being very careful with those that already have radicles. Several of the nuts are almost fully exposed after watering the first time, is that ok?
Thanks again from the bottom of my heart for all of the advice; I have high hopes for healthy trees to put in the ground in the coming years!

View attachment 27455

Those are fine as is for growth in the trays.

For the wire protection, it'll need to be up off the chestnuts and secured so nothing can reach in and grab them.

Squirrels will have a field day with them if the wire cage isn't large enough to keep their grubby little arms out.

 

[letemgrow]

Hey guys, another question for you. How often do I need to water the nuts in the R18s, before they sprout?

I like to feel how heavy the tray is to determine if they need watered. Heavily water one tray and lift, then fill another tray up with bone dry soil medium and lift to see the difference.

Until the seedlings have a good amount of top growth, they shouldn't need watered every day.

Once the seedlings are 12" or taller and the ambient temps are over 80, I'd water then at least in the morning and evening. If you can water them mid-day then all the better. When the temps get above 90 and the seedlings are large in the trays, they'll need even more and some shade from the overhead sun if you keep them in the trays that long.

 

[KSQ2]

Those are fine as is for growth in the trays.

For the wire protection, it'll need to be up off the chestnuts and secured so nothing can reach in and grab them.

Squirrels will have a field day with them if the wire cage isn't large enough to keep their grubby little arms out.

The wire is there for our cats - they are curious boogers. Our dogs and cats do great job on the squirrels.

 

[yoderjac]

The wire is there for our cats - they are curious boogers. Our dogs and cats do great job on the squirrels.

So does my Benjamin pellet gun. Drive through our suburban neighborhood and squirrels are constantly dodging cars...Until you get near our house...The is a distinct hole in the population. New ones move in, so I need to keep up with it. They can be devastating when growing trees. They can be destructive when they get under roof sheeting and into the walls.

 

[mattpatt]

Finally got mine up and going. 45- 4” x 14” tree pots with a mixture of chestnut and oaks. All sourced from my trees except for the American Chestnut.

Late DCO
Allegheny Chinquapin
AU Super Chestnut
American Chestnut
Sawtooth Oak
Late Dropping Chinese Chestnut
Concordia Oak

Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KSQ2]

Well, it has been 13 days now since I put the nuts in the R18s. How long will it be until I see some top growth typically?

 

[yoderjac]

Well, it has been 13 days now since I put the nuts in the R18s. How long will it be until I see some top growth typically?

There are many factors with Chestnuts, including the amount of cold stratification. One year, Wayne and I started nuts the same way but he cold stratified longer than I did. He got better germination. While we were doing that, I made a couple charts:

These were started indoors, under lights, with controlled humidity.

 

[KSQ2]

There are many factors with Chestnuts, including the amount of cold stratification. One year, Wayne and I started nuts the same way but he cold stratified longer than I did. He got better germination. While we were doing that, I made a couple charts:

These were started indoors, under lights, with controlled humidity.

Mine were in the fridge for 101 days.

 

[yoderjac]

Mine were in the fridge for 101 days.

That affects the number that germinate. I thing Wayne had his in for 90 days and I had mine in cold stratification for 60 days. He got well over 90% (can't recall exact numbers_ and I got in the 70s% germination. Keep in mind you don't start the count when you put them in the fridge. It starts when you add dampness to the medium. Without the right moisture content, in the cold, they kind of go into suspended animation.