Missouri Dept of Conservation ''Targeted Kills'' in CWD ''Hot Zones''

[babalina]

We are a hunting couple in central Missouri in Oregon County and my husband has seen a gross decline of deer on our 40 acres. We found out that our neighbor signed up the MDC ''Targeted Kill'' program and has supplied my neighbor with 150 lbs of tax funded corn for the Targeted kill that lasts from Jan 15 to March 15.
We have seen his corn pile, and I have even seen his corn pile from space via Satellite Imagery and the deer paths on the land to the pile. We were invited to join but declined.
The Missouri MDC says on their website currently, they will provide ''limited amount'' of corn to bait deer. My next door neighbor, sits on his porch, about 100 yards from the property line and the bait is about 100 yards away. This is incredible to me, that the Missouri Department of Conversation is actually providing corn when all the evidence suggests from other papers, that bait piles of corn increase the spread of CWD. And thuse, there are many states which have state wide bans on baiting deer for this very reason. Incredible. My neighbor said he was going to ''shoot every deer he sees'' and has been on his deck shooting the deer. I lost count, but to date, only 1/21 I have counted 7 dead deer blown to bits 100 yards from my horse where I ride. That isn't the point however, The deer come and eat with their saliva, piss and poo. Then BOOM! Blood from deer one is spattered all over the corn pile. That evening, rodents, coons, and armadillos come and eat the corn and piss and poo and deposit their saliva on it. The next day, another deer is on the corn pile. BOOOOM! Deer number 2 blood is spattered all over the grain and ground. And so it goes on, another BOOM GOES OFF. So at the end of the week, The blood is spattered over the corn pile by X number of deer. Have the geniouses at the MDC ever factor the blood being ingested, along with piss poo and saliva by other deer a key factor in spreading CWD? Like Mad Cow Disease, where bovines eat bone meal of dead cows in their grains, creating all kinds of protein prions? Never mind the fact, that we won't have any meat in the freezer next fall, which I am quite vexed over. The neighbor will continue to kill every deer he can, until March 15 passes. What do you think? And I am convinced now that he has been baiting for years, since I have seen the corn pile from space.

 

[T-Max]

If CWD is spread by saliva, poo and piss, why do we have to kill them and test brain tissue to see if they are infected? You make a valid point. A coyote can carry a vertebrae full of spinal cord a long ways. It has parallels to COVID. Taking severe action without first understanding all of the factors involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drycreek]

I’m guessing there is lots of pressure from the Farm Bureau and insurance companies to kill more deer than are killed during a normal hunting season. Farmers complain about deer eating their crops and insurance companies complain about car/deer accidents. The bottom line in both instances is $$$$$ ! The people that want to partake of this deer slaughter are brain dead IMO.

 

[babalina]

There are no farm crops around here to speak of. Missouri is the only state that gives landowners bait for an easy kill, up to 10 deer per limit. The neighbor's gun went off again today, and yesterday. The Missouri MDC cites Illinois and WI CWD practices but none of them mention baiting deer. In fact, it is banned, especially in CWD zones. Illinois has a CWD deer season and the limit is one deer. I just learned about it. The MDC allows spots lights at night so for 2 effing months, the next door neighbor has 24/7 permit to kill as many deer as he sees. When we asked if he would refrain from shooting for a 2 hr period to enable me to ride my horse, the narcissistic reply was ''i am going to shoot every deer I see''

 

[Drycreek]

Well, if he’s doing that he’s an idiot and I don’t see any recourse for you except to move, and I’m sure that’s not an option for you.

 

[MarkDarvin]

You're in a battle. Time to act like it. You've got some options, but you're gonna have to engage.

1. Bait back: Build a better bait station on your property. Bigger, better composition, cleaner, and out of sight. You're probably sitting on a half million dollar or better property, you're gonna have to write a check to defend it if this is important to you. I'd go to the feed store and get 2000 pounds of premium deer feed with molasses in it. If you can't buy it, make it yourself, and get to work drawing them away from him. If he's got one giant pile of plain corn covered in mud, blood, and guts, spread yours out so the deer don't have to fight each other while they're trying to eat.

2. Find neighbors around him to do the same: If they won't/can't, ask them if you can run a bait station on their property for them. If they want in but can't help, ask them to kick in a few hundred bucks and offer to share receipts and show pics of what you're doing.

Here's a live web cam from a feeding operation in Maine. The feed needs to be distributed and kept clean. Then you can host far more deer at once.

 

[yoderjac]

You're in a battle. Time to act like it. You've got some options, but you're gonna have to engage.

1. Bait back: Build a better bait station on your property. Bigger, better composition, cleaner, and out of sight. You're probably sitting on a half million dollar or better property, you're gonna have to write a check to defend it if this is important to you. I'd go to the feed store and get 2000 pounds of premium deer feed with molasses in it. If you can't buy it, make it yourself, and get to work drawing them away from him. If he's got one giant pile of plain corn covered in mud, blood, and guts, spread yours out so the deer don't have to fight each other while they're trying to eat.

2. Find neighbors around him to do the same: If they won't/can't, ask them if you can run a bait station on their property for them. If they want in but can't help, ask them to kick in a few hundred bucks and offer to share receipts and show pics of what you're doing.

Here's a live web cam from a feeding operation in Maine. The feed needs to be distributed and kept clean. Then you can host far more deer at once.

Seems to me this just makes things worse.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Seems to me this just makes things worse.

If it means the difference between having deer and not, I would absolutely go this route with zero regard for CWD. There is no science with CWD. It's only theories and propaganda.

I've read articles that say CWD cannot degrade in soil, yet CWD has low to no prevalence outside of row crop country. I've read articles showing that humic and fulvic acids in healthy soil can absolutely destroy CWD prions. Where is there no natural humic and fulvic acid production? Row crop soils. Where is there oodles? Damn near anywhere that isn't row cropped.

I've read articles that say the prions can be taken up in plants. If that is true, 100% of the population has already ingested the prions in any processed food product. Deer with CWD pees in a bean field, beans get squeezed into vegetable oil, vegetable oil is put into everything.

Anywhere CWD is found, deer populations go up. In MN, the state was disposing of CWD positive deer on piles on government land (Rochester) where predators could eat the positive tissue and continue to scatter it. There were no PPE guidelines for landfill workers that handled CWD carcasses.

Deer breeders were working on isolating specific gene types in deer that were naturally resistant to CWD, but the government wanted no part of such hopeful research. It got in the way of the desired response.

I am not wringing my hands for this BS.

 

[yoderjac]

If it means the difference between having deer and not, I would absolutely go this route with zero regard for CWD. There is no science with CWD. It's only theories and propaganda.

I've read articles that say CWD cannot degrade in soil, yet CWD has low to no prevalence outside of row crop country. I've read articles showing that humic and fulvic acids in healthy soil can absolutely destroy CWD prions. Where is there no natural humic and fulvic acid production? Row crop soils. Where is there oodles? Damn near anywhere that isn't row cropped.

I've read articles that say the prions can be taken up in plants. If that is true, 100% of the population has already ingested the prions in any processed food product. Deer with CWD pees in a bean field, beans get squeezed into vegetable oil, vegetable oil is put into everything.

Anywhere CWD is found, deer populations go up. In MN, the state was disposing of CWD positive deer on piles on government land (Rochester) where predators could eat the positive tissue and continue to scatter it. There were no PPE guidelines for landfill workers that handled CWD carcasses.

Deer breeders were working on isolating specific gene types in deer that were naturally resistant to CWD, but the government wanted no part of such hopeful research. It got in the way of the desired response.

I am not wringing my hands for this BS.

There is plenty of science on CWD and more is emerging, but their is no proven management approach. I'm saying that providing concentrated point source attractants is generally not a good practice regardless of CWD. I'm not suggesting every state is managing CWD well. There is a lot of variability and some states are more able to use science based approaches and others tend to be more influenced by political concerns.

The situation the OP is in is horrific. There is no doubt about it, but starting some kind of baiting war just makes things worse.

The OP may be right that his neighbor has been doing this for years. There are bad apples out there. There always have been. While illegal in my state, baiting is a common practice in many areas.

 

[Drycreek]

Good post Mark ! CWD is the Covid 19 in the deer world.

 

[MarkDarvin]

None of that is science. This very first sentence of belief in whatever is said is somehow gold despite it producing no useful course of action to change the trajectory of a disease that 99.9% of deer of whom test positive show no outward signs of having this always fatal disease.

Has any state or game agency shown one sliver of evidence that they can contain CWD? Has a single one produced anything meaningful to reduce the positives other than kill thousands of healthy deer?

There is plenty of science on CWD and more is emerging, but their is no proven management approach. I'm saying that providing concentrated point source attractants is generally not a good practice regardless of CWD. I'm not suggesting every state is managing CWD well. There is a lot of variability and some states are more able to use science based approaches and others tend to be more influenced by political concerns.

The situation the OP is in is horrific. There is no doubt about it, but starting some kind of baiting war just makes things worse.

The OP may be right that his neighbor has been doing this for years. There are bad apples out there. There always have been. While illegal in my state, baiting is a common practice in many areas.

You have to look outside the box and think. Has anyone thought about testing deer in CWD country for nutrient deficiencies? How about testing bone, hair, and organ tissue for neonics, glufosinate, paraquat, triflurilin, sulfentrazone, pyroxasulfone, metribuzin, malathion, glyphosate, insecticides, fungicides, nitrates, pharmaceuticals, microplastics, PFAS, mercury, lead, cadmium, strontium, etc. There isn't hardly a drop of water or fist full of forage out there in CWD country that doesn't have something wrong with it outside of natural forages isolated far enough away from the drift zone of dicamba or 2-4D. I suggest they look harder if they want try to get to the bottom of a problem that hasn't reduced the deer herd anywhere. But they won't, because it's not the problem. CWD has always been the solution.

Deer don't understand rotation restrictions after crops are sprayed, and they don't have the option to drink well water. I don't care what the scientists say. They are not wrong and they are not right. They are bought off liars. They have dirty money in their pockets. Their results are purchased and rooted in nothing other than good old pay to play politics. Sometimes the biggest contributions scientists can make to an agenda is to make sure they never look in the right place for a problem.

 

[letemgrow]

Has any state or game agency shown one sliver of evidence that they can contain CWD? Has a single one produced anything meaningful to reduce the positives other than kill thousands of healthy deer?

I can't see how the strategy in MO is producing any results. They're still finding it yearly in new counties. I've always wondered if it wasn't some sort of result from being deficient in some nutrient.

Sure do like getting the extra 10 CWD tags a year to use at my discretion at my farm. My brother has a blast (pun intended) with the ones I give him.

I could use them all myself and shoot 11 bucks during the rifle season (1 regular tag and 10 CWD tags).

 

[yoderjac]

I can't see how the strategy in MO is producing any results. They're still finding it yearly in new counties. I've always wondered if it wasn't some sort of result from being deficient in some nutrient.

Sure do like getting the extra 10 CWD tags a year to use at my discretion at my farm. My brother has a blast (pun intended) with the ones I give him.

I could use them all myself and shoot 11 bucks during the rifle season (1 regular tag and 10 CWD tags).

You might be right. It is pretty hard to tell what is working in the wild. Without a control, one never knows what might have been. Folks can be zealots and advocate for a particular position and call all science bunk. There is no doubt that politics are involved in every decision we make. There are always parties with special interests on both sides of an issue.

The best we can do is to follow the solid science we do have and apply it along with our best judgement. It is that judgement and the politics that vary from area to area. There is still much that is not known. I certainly understand how upset folks can get when a lifetime pursuit is threatened.

Is the cure worse than the disease? I think that is open for debate and is different in each jurisdiction. I think some states have learned from the mistakes of the states that were hit early. I'm pretty happy with the management in our state. I can see how folks in other states are not. Our state began changing regulations and such before CWD hit our state. The movement of it through our state has been slow but steady. So far, severe action has not been required here. If and when it is needed, it will be hard to swallow.

Many years before CWD was envisioned making it to our state, we enrolled in a deer management assistance program. We get fee antlerless tags and have for many years. Like you, we use these tags with discretion. We track population trends and use more tags when it is on the rise and fewer when it is on the decline.

I think most landowners are pretty responsible and are interested in maintaining a healthy population. As will most things each owner will think his approach is right and may object to a neighbors. We have always had this tension. CWD management is just one more of these.

 

[MarkDarvin]

You might be right. It is pretty hard to tell what is working in the wild. Without a control, one never knows what might have been.

Science requires no faith, only proof and replication. There are no results, no proof, not even consistency in theories. Therefore it is not science and never was. It's just a story to push an agenda. It should be especially worrisome that the zombie deer stories are back in the mainstream media all of sudden, despite CWD supposedly being on the landscape for decades.

What has changed all of a sudden that they think it'll jump the species barrier now? Seems to me like something else is going to get blamed on deer. 2024 is gonna be a doozie. One thing is for certain experts will at least be baffled, and despite not knowing what it is, it just can't be that one thing we can't talk about any longer.

 

[yoderjac]

Science requires no faith, only proof and replication. There are no results, no proof, not even consistency in theories. Therefore it is not science and never was. It's just a story to push an agenda. It should be especially worrisome that the zombie deer stories are back in the mainstream media all of sudden, despite CWD supposedly being on the landscape for decades.

What has changed all of a sudden that they think it'll jump the species barrier now? Seems to me like something else is going to get blamed on deer. 2024 is gonna be a doozie. One thing is for certain experts will at least be baffled, and despite not knowing what it is, it just can't be that one thing we can't talk about any longer.

As I said, some folks will be zealots and advocate for a particular position and call all science bunk. The best we can do is to follow the solid science we do have and apply it along with our best judgement. We each make choices.

 

[Drycreek]

I can't see how the strategy in MO is producing any results. They're still finding it yearly in new counties. I've always wondered if it wasn't some sort of result from being deficient in some nutrient.

Sure do like getting the extra 10 CWD tags a year to use at my discretion at my farm. My brother has a blast (pun intended) with the ones I give him.

I could use them all myself and shoot 11 bucks during the rifle season (1 regular tag and 10 CWD tags).

What do you do with eleven deer ?

 

[yoderjac]

What do you do with eleven deer ?

I don't know about letemgrow, but I personally have taken 3-6 on average each year, mostly does. We do our own butchering. We have a long list of originally anti-hunters to agnostics that we converter over the years. They all love the venison we give them each year. There are many struggling families in the area that are very appreciative of the meat. There is always Hunters for the Hungry. We used to donate deer to them, but they now get plenty of venison donations. They are more in need of money donations to cover the processing, so we now donate money instead of meat.

Unless we go to a fancy restaurant, venison is about the only red meat my wife and I eat. If I took more than about 6, I would need to donate some to H4H again.

 

[swat1018]

Science? Just because a "scientist" says something, I wouldn't call it science.

 

[yoderjac]

Science? Just because a "scientist" says something, I wouldn't call it science.

I completely agree. But there is a big difference between claiming there is no science regarding CWD and saying that there is no scientific basis, or an insufficient scientific basis, for a particular management decision. Management decisions are always based on come combination of science, judgement, and politics. Both judgements and politics vary from situation to situation.

 

[letemgrow]

What do you do with eleven deer ?

Could is the correct term.

I've never used a CWD tag yet.