Chestnut Production?

[yoderjac]

Here is an old post of mine regarding mixes for chestnuts:

There are professional mixes you can get from nurseries that are just as good. As I said Fafard 3B is one I've used that has been just as good. The cost is deceiving. I'm paying closer to $35 a bale for Promix these days. Because the bales are compressed they contain roughly 3 times as much medium as the uncompressed bags on an uncompressed volume basis as the bags you get in a retail store.​

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There are two important reasons you want a professional mix with the right kind of chunkiness for growing with root pruning pots. First is that the voids in these mixes great gaps for the roots to fill as they are pruned and branch upstream. When a tree is ready to transplant from a root pruning pot, the density of roots is extremely high compared to a non-root pruning pot. The second reason is even more important for most.​

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One of the biggest issue folks have when starting out growing trees indoors under lights is watering. Many trees like chestnuts don't like wet feet. Until folks get the hang of it, deciding how frequently to water and how much water can be very difficult as it changes fast during different stages of tree development. Most of the problems I see are related to water. A professional mix with proper drainage in an 18 makes this process much simpler. One can water by weight. I've discussed this technique on other threads. Watering on a schedule or with a certain amount usually doesn't work well. Watering by weight ensures you are providing enough water but allowing the roots to dry out sufficiently between watering.​

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One more note. I would not mix promix or any other mix with the pine bark nuggets when using 18s. I do that with larger RB2 1 and 3 gal containers and it works well, but it is too chunky for 18s.​

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If you get the watering right, you can make any old mix work, even regular Miracle Grow. If you want to maximize your chances of success either mix your own or get one of the professional mixes for tree growing. The link I provided in the previous post lists lots of brands and shows their performance. You can find a good performing one and try to find the components and make your own, or use a big store mix as a base and add what is missing. I've been growing trees in rootmakers for a number of years now, and I'm still not good enough at watering with other methods. I find mixing my own too inconvenient and end up buying a professional mix.​

 

[KSQ2]

Here is an only post of mine regarding mixes for chestnuts:

There are professional mixes you can get from nurseries that are just as good. As I said Fafard 3B is one I've used that has been just as good. The cost is deceiving. I'm paying closer to $35 a bale for Promix these days. Because the bales are compressed they contain roughly 3 times as much medium as the uncompressed bags on an uncompressed volume basis as the bags you get in a retail store.​

​

There are two important reasons you want a professional mix with the right kind of chunkiness for growing with root pruning pots. First is that the voids in these mixes great gaps for the roots to fill as they are pruned and branch upstream. When a tree is ready to transplant from a root pruning pot, the density of roots is extremely high compared to a non-root pruning pot. The second reason is even more important for most.​

​

One of the biggest issue folks have when starting out growing trees indoors under lights is watering. Many trees like chestnuts don't like wet feet. Until folks get the hang of it, deciding how frequently to water and how much water can be very difficult as it changes fast during different stages of tree development. Most of the problems I see are related to water. A professional mix with proper drainage in an 18 makes this process much simpler. One can water by weight. I've discussed this technique on other threads. Watering on a schedule or with a certain amount usually doesn't work well. Watering by weight ensures you are providing enough water but allowing the roots to dry out sufficiently between watering.​

​

One more note. I would not mix promix or any other mix with the pine bark nuggets when using 18s. I do that with larger RB2 1 and 3 gal containers and it works well, but it is too chunky for 18s.​

​

If you get the watering right, you can make any old mix work, even regular Miracle Grow. If you want to maximize your chances of success either mix your own or get one of the professional mixes for tree growing. The link I provided in the previous post lists lots of brands and shows their performance. You can find a good performing one and try to find the components and make your own, or use a big store mix as a base and add what is missing. I've been growing trees in rootmakers for a number of years now, and I'm still not good enough at watering with other methods. I find mixing my own too inconvenient and end up buying a professional mix.​

What is the reasoning for mixing pine bark nuggets? Is it simply a little more cost effective?

 

[yoderjac]

Here is another old post related to mixes:


I've seen that question asked a lot. I understand the general concepts of starting trees in rootmaker cells. You want a well drained mix that leaves lots of space in the cell for root branching to fill. But, how does that translate to all the specific mixes out there?
So far, I've used two mixes, Fafard 3B and Promix BX. I know many of you have used these as well. They seem to work pretty well but until now, I had not seen any hard data on mixes.
As I was poking around today looking at nut grafting techniques, I ran across this presentation related to American Chestnut Restoration: http://www.forestbiotech.org/wp-con...can_chestnut_restoration_research-Maynard.pdf
There is lots of good information in general in the presentation, but I found one section on mixes pretty enlightening. It is the first hard data I've found. They tested 11 different mixes with 5 seed lots and replicated it 3 times. While this testing was focused on chestnuts, I'm fairly confident that it applies to most tree seedlings we grow.
So, who were the winners and losers?

Above are the loosers.
Neither of the mixes I used were in the test. Mixes will change over time, but what generalization can we make about the difference between winners and losers?

When you look at the chart, both winners were the two highest dry weights and the two losers were the two lowest dry weights.
I hope this sheds a little more light on choosing a mix.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

What is the reasoning for mixing pine bark nuggets? Is it simply a little more cost effective?

Cost if you are doing trees in volume. Pine bark is pretty chunky and creates good voids in the mix with good drainage. Most mixes have pine bark in them. For me, it was a cost savings measure.

 

[wbpdeer]

I use mini-pine bark in my chestnut mix. It creates air gaps as Yoder says and it helps with the pH. Chestnuts like acidic growing media.

Also, I use pine straw as a mulch with the tree's final location. Pine straw is a free - a go get it item. Cost me nothing.

Professional mixes usually have HP for high porosity which makes it worth me buying it.

K2Q2 - you are asking the right questions. Hang in there, your decisions will improve how your seedlings grow and how they survive in the field.

 

[KSQ2]

We have two giant western pines in our back yard, pine needles are a curse. Lol
But they make great winter bedding for our dogs and I’ll use them occasionally for trees too.

 

[mattpatt]

I don’t grow near the the amount of seedlings I used to but these were produced from my own trees. Seedlings in grow bags (top four) are Colossal and the ones in the hard plastic pots (one on the side of the pic yet to be planted and on the bottom) are late dropping Dunstan. All were started in RM18s then moved to these three gallon pots for the remainder of the year.

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[yoderjac]

I don’t grow near the the amount of seedlings I used to but these were produced from my own trees. Seedlings in grow bags (top four) are Colossal and the ones in the hard plastic pots (one on the side of the pic yet to be planted and on the bottom) are late dropping Dunstan. All were started in RM18s then moved to these three gallon pots for the remainder of the year.

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Takes me back to my tree growing days...

 

[mattpatt]

Takes me back to my tree growing days...

I used to grow hundreds of chestnuts every year. It got to the point to where I was catching rain water off the house and had automatic drip irrigation so we could at least go on vacation during the summer because you had to water every other day or you’d come back to dry wilted leaves due to the Texas heat.

We planted most of them down in our woods (gave away some) and quickly realized we were not equipped to maintain almost 100 one year old trees down in the woods. In the end very few remain to this day mainly because we failed to remove those grow bags that were rated to biodegrade after 12 months. We left them on to save time as we had so many to plant and supposedly the roots would grow right through them and the bag would degrade over time. Wrong. What it did was trap the roots. Very few made it through and most of the bags remain to this day 8-9 years later.

We pulled some up a few years ago after we realized what was happening and you could pull them up with a shovel. We removed the bags and they are slowly recovering but are severely stunted.

Always REMOVE the grow bags. Period!

Now I only grow a handful of trees and if we ever decide to go somewhere I can always load them up pretty easily and take them to my parents house and get my Dad to water while I’m gone.

Matt


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[yoderjac]

I used to grow hundreds of chestnuts every year. It got to the point to where I was catching rain water off the house and had automatic drip irrigation so we could at least go on vacation during the summer because you had to water every other day or you’d come back to dry wilted leaves due to the Texas heat.

We planted most of them down in our woods (gave away some) and quickly realized we were not equipped to maintain almost 100 one year old trees down in the woods. In the end very few remain to this day mainly because we failed to remove those grow bags that were rated to biodegrade after 12 months. We left them on to save time as we had so many to plant and supposedly the roots would grow right through them and the bag would degrade over time. Wrong. What it did was trap the roots. Very few made it through and most of the bags remain to this day 8-9 years later.

We pulled some up a few years ago after we realized what was happening and you could pull them up with a shovel. We removed the bags and they are slowly recovering but are severely stunted.

Always REMOVE the grow bags. Period!

Now I only grow a handful of trees and if we ever decide to go somewhere I can always load them up pretty easily and take them to my parents house and get my Dad to water while I’m gone.

Matt


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I did something similar. I collected rain water in a large tank and used a pump and a hose for top watering. In some cases I used a watering table I built. I would fill a large rubermaid tub with rain water, dunk a 3 gal and set it on the table with a wire top. I had a collection bin with a tub leading to a 5 gal bucket so I could recycle the rain water. When we had a dry period, rain water became precious.

As for maintenance we did none, and planned for that, because of the volume of trees. We used tree tubes and no grow bags. We planted directly from 3 gal RB2s. Once tubed, it was up to the tree to survive. We provided no supplemental water or fertilizer or anything. That may not be a good strategy for all climates but it worked well here.

I've pretty much stopped growing trees. I still do occasional persimmon grafting and direct seeding but that is about it. I'm now focused on other aspects of habitat management.

 

[cutman]

This tree is so loaded. It’s about 20 feet tall.

 

[mattpatt]

This tree is so loaded. It’s about 20 feet tall.

View attachment 25714

I’ve got some that are like that this year. I’m afraid some of the limbs are going to break.

Matt


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[TreeDaddy]

How do you get that "tree form?"

Do you prune them ?

Mine seem to be closer to being bush form

bill

 

[yoderjac]

How do you get that "tree form?"

Do you prune them ?

Mine seem to be closer to being bush form

bill

My Dunstan chestnuts vary in form between those that are taller and closer to American and those that are shorter and wider closer to Chinese. I've tried pruning and I don't think it impacts the final form much.

 

[cutman]

How do you get that "tree form?"

Do you prune them ?

Mine seem to be closer to being bush form

bill

The only pruning I’ve done was to make it so I could mow under them.

 

[RGrizzzz]

How much do the deer like there chestnuts? Our trees dropped nuts last year for the first time, and NOTHING bothered them. Mostly Dunstan/Empire/Route9 seeds sourced trees.

We had an old lone hybrid tree on the property, and it was finally pollinated by a few of our plantings. The critters were all over that one, but no others, even close by.

 

[Native Hunter]

How much do the deer like there chestnuts? Our trees dropped nuts last year for the first time, and NOTHING bothered them. Mostly Dunstan/Empire/Route9 seeds sourced trees.

We had an old lone hybrid tree on the property, and it was finally pollinated by a few of our plantings. The critters were all over that one, but no others, even close by.

That's extremely uncommon for me. They all get eaten here.

 

[cutman]

How much do the deer like there chestnuts? Our trees dropped nuts last year for the first time, and NOTHING bothered them. Mostly Dunstan/Empire/Route9 seeds sourced trees.

We had an old lone hybrid tree on the property, and it was finally pollinated by a few of our plantings. The critters were all over that one, but no others, even close by.

Deer race to eat these chestnuts. Last year was the first time I really noticed it. This year I expect more of the same.

 

[mattpatt]

How do you get that "tree form?"

Do you prune them ?

Mine seem to be closer to being bush form

bill

Here’s a Dunstan, which for all intents and purposes might as well be Chinese, which has never been pruned.

Matt


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[KSQ2]

Anybody going to be willing to part with some nuts again this year??? I was hoping to be harvesting my own by now, but still waiting...